New Creekstone Proposal

[Bill]

BSE testers post above:

Two Feed Suppliers in Northern Alberta are still - that is AS I WRITE THIS - providing feed with animal protein in it!!

Oldtimers post regarding this comment on Cattle Today: http://cattletoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19462

Bez- You need to go over to ranchers.net and talk to BSE tester (New Creekstone Proposal thread)...He's from Edmonton and claims CFIA's enforcement has been abysmal-- and that it has no teeth....He claims that two Canadian feed companies are still putting animal protein in cattle feed...

Here's a tidbit you may want to file Oldtimer it is a RUMINENT to RUMINENT feed ban.

I hope you just read it wrong and aren't lieing to the good people at Cattle Today Oldtimer. (Nahhhh you wouldn't do that! :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll

 

[Sandhusker]

BSE testers post above:

Two Feed Suppliers in Northern Alberta are still - that is AS I WRITE THIS - providing feed with animal protein in it!!

Oldtimers post regarding this comment on Cattle Today: http://cattletoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19462

Bez- You need to go over to ranchers.net and talk to BSE tester (New Creekstone Proposal thread)...He's from Edmonton and claims CFIA's enforcement has been abysmal-- and that it has no teeth....He claims that two Canadian feed companies are still putting animal protein in cattle feed...

Here's a tidbit you may want to file Oldtimer it is a RUMINENT to RUMINENT feed ban.

I hope you just read it wrong and aren't lieing to the good people at Cattle Today Oldtimer. (Nahhhh you wouldn't do that! :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll

So, Bill, how is that ruminant to ruminant food ban working? Any post ban positives lately?

 

[Anonymous]

BSE testers post above:

Two Feed Suppliers in Northern Alberta are still - that is AS I WRITE THIS - providing feed with animal protein in it!!

Oldtimers post regarding this comment on Cattle Today: http://cattletoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19462

Bez- You need to go over to ranchers.net and talk to BSE tester (New Creekstone Proposal thread)...He's from Edmonton and claims CFIA's enforcement has been abysmal-- and that it has no teeth....He claims that two Canadian feed companies are still putting animal protein in cattle feed...

Here's a tidbit you may want to file Oldtimer it is a RUMINENT to RUMINENT feed ban.

I hope you just read it wrong and aren't lieing to the good people at Cattle Today Oldtimer. (Nahhhh you wouldn't do that! :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll

BSE Tester

As for the two feed suppliers in Alberta - they are using protein from cattle, pigs and other animals. It is common knowledge up north and plus the fact they admitted it at more than one cattlemen's meeting held this past year. Like money, not all corporations are clean.

This kind of fits what weve been hearing down here- that a lot of the Canucks don't believe in the feed ban or the feed transmission theory and are still feeding it- NO matter what animal or parts are in it- as long as its cheap........May account for the reason all the positives are coming from a cluster area....

This would be a good mission for you and Tam--Go check this out...Might be the biggest thing the Canadian Stockgrowers Associations ever did...Besides it might get Tam off the bottle- or pills or whatever the lady is on lately :wink: ....

 

[frenchie]

This kind of fits what weve been hearing down here- that a lot of the Canucks don't believe in the feed ban or the feed transmission theory and are still feeding it- NO matter what animal or parts are in it- as long as its cheap........May account for the reason all the positives are coming from a cluster area....

....

Lot of speculation on your Part Ot :lol: Can you prove it.

 

[Tam]

[

quote="bse-tester"]Tam Wrote:

I too would like to see a list of the beef exporting countries that have the exact and in some cases more stringent safeguards for as long as the US has had them. Please remember we have been testing for BSE since the very early 90's, a higher percentage of our herd than the US has.

I am not trying to embarrass Tam here, but I would suggest that statements posted be at least leaning toward accurate. The percentages are way different and obviously, a little more homework is needed to get the facts straight and the math right!

Having stated that, Tam is saying that Canada tests far more than the USA. That is not true. Canada continues to test approximately 30,000 animals per year taken from random sampling of already slaughtered animals - for the most part - on a test and hold protocol as well as those animals that are suspected of harboring BSE or some other disease. The USA however, as shown below, has tested and continues to test far more than the Canadian number of 30,000 animals. Check the last sentence.

Are you telling us that the number of cattle in our herd verses the number in the US herd should not be taken into consideration. They are 7 times the size we are and to be testing the same percentage they would have to test 7 times as many cattle which the numbers proved they were not, not even close.

I would like you to look at the numbers now, Check the CFIA test numbers, you will see that Canada has not tested 30,000 we have tested over 91,000 head since the Jan 2004 when we agreed to up the testing of 4D cattle not slaughter cattle like the US is using. 23,550 in 2004 when our quota was 8000 and 57,768 when our quota rose to 30,000 and so far this year we have tested another 9869 in the first two months of 2006. If we keep up that rate we will have tested 59000+ in 2006. that is a far cry from the 30,000 you claim we test isn't it? The question is will the US go beyond the one time shot and test for 5 or 6 years like Canada agreed to or will they drop the testing back to the 20,000 that they had planned to drop it back to when they announced their new surveillance system. and will they test the recommended cattle using the test the rest of the world including Canada uses. They may have tested 450,000 and only found two but the credibility of their system has been called into question how many times, with cows slipping by and confirmation test being tossed because it was a experiment test the found a positive result. Only to have the cow retested 7 months later and found positive and confirmed positive by the UK which should have been done 7 months earlier.

Where is you proof that the UK cattle that were found and tested were rampant with BSE?

 

[Anonymous]

This kind of fits what weve been hearing down here- that a lot of the Canucks don't believe in the feed ban or the feed transmission theory and are still feeding it- NO matter what animal or parts are in it- as long as its cheap........May account for the reason all the positives are coming from a cluster area....

....

Lot of speculation on your Part Ot :lol: Can you prove it.

99% of everything surrounding BSE is speculation, theory, and SWAG's....

 

[frenchie]

This kind of fits what weve been hearing down here- that a lot of the Canucks don't believe in the feed ban or the feed transmission theory and are still feeding it- NO matter what animal or parts are in it- as long as its cheap........May account for the reason all the positives are coming from a cluster area....

....

Lot of speculation on your Part Ot :lol: Can you prove it.

99% of everything surrounding BSE is speculation, theory, and SWAG's....

I asked you If you can prove it...Answer the question OT

 

[TimH]

BSE testers post above:

Two Feed Suppliers in Northern Alberta are still - that is AS I WRITE THIS - providing feed with animal protein in it!!

Oldtimers post regarding this comment on Cattle Today: http://cattletoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19462

Bez- You need to go over to ranchers.net and talk to BSE tester (New Creekstone Proposal thread)...He's from Edmonton and claims CFIA's enforcement has been abysmal-- and that it has no teeth....He claims that two Canadian feed companies are still putting animal protein in cattle feed...

Here's a tidbit you may want to file Oldtimer it is a RUMINENT to RUMINENT feed ban.

I hope you just read it wrong and aren't lieing to the good people at Cattle Today Oldtimer. (Nahhhh you wouldn't do that! :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll

So, Bill, how is that ruminant to ruminant food ban working? Any post ban positives lately?

Ya, there has been a couple positives.....but guess what Sandhuckster....thay were found using the proper tests and the they were not found only because the OIG(equivalent) ordered them to be re-tested using the proper tests.They wre found under SOP testing protocols. They were also not destined for the feed or food chains. They were found testing the high risk category of cattle.Can you say the same about US cattle?? No.Not without lying at least.
Do you really want to go there Randy???? The Texas cow is proof positive that BSE has been circulating in the US herd for AT LEAST 12 years. How much has it amplified since then??? All things being equal, it has amplified at least as much as it has in the CDN herd. Or are you completely retarded and willing to suggest that the Texas cow was the one and only BSE positive cow in the entire US herd???
PS. I have a brother named Randy and he is a weasel, too. :roll:

 

[Tam]

Tam, we licensed the Japanese three years ago to use our test and they are using it!! They came to us in our UK offices and the agreement was signed there. As for validation - in the event that you wish to know - the Japanese can use any test they wish, as we can in Canada, validated or not, to identify PrPsc. The problem arises when the test is used to validate meat and meat byproducts destined for export. We cannot do that here or in the USA until the test is validated. However, since the Japanese import their meat, they can test it and their domestic herds all they want with an unvalidated test - why? Because they know it works better than the USDA test and the CFIA test.

Creekstone has actually failed to convince the USDA regarding their wanting to use a test due the strangle hold the USDA has on the American producers when it comes to testing due the fact that Creekstone wishes to export their product. The USDA is the only authority that can conduct or oversee the testing for BSE in the USA.

As for the two feed suppliers in Alberta - they are using protein from cattle, pigs and other animals. It is common knowledge up north and plus the fact they admitted it at more than one cattlemen's meeting held this past year. Like money, not all corporations are clean.

Tell us then if Japan is using your test and you say it will pick up BSE prions at any age then why did the Japanese say the testing they have been doing didn't show any results in under 20 months and therefore they agreed to drop the testing of 20 month and under? Why wouldn't they just tell the US that they wanted them to us your test if they want to export to Japan. Why would they go through all the work of changing their testing protocol if all they had to do was have the US use your test?

About the feed mills if they use cattle by products in their pig and chicken feed there in not law against it yet. If they are using pig and chicken in cattle feed I don't know of any law against that either yet but if they are using cattle by products in cattle feed and selling it as cattle feed that is what is illegal. If the producers know this and are buying it to feed to their cattle then I say throw them all in jail and throw away the key. If you know this is happening for a fact then TURN THEM IN as we don't need that knid of stupidity in our industry.

 

[Sandhusker]

Tim, I've never bragged about the USDA's testing. In fact, I've been very critical.

Yep, your testing found the cow. That's not the point. The point is that if your feed ban was the caliber Tam seems to think it is, that cow wouldn't of had BSE.

 

[Anonymous]

Lot of speculation on your Part Ot :lol: Can you prove it.

99% of everything surrounding BSE is speculation, theory, and SWAG's....

I asked you If you can prove it...Answer the question OT

Your country- Your cattle- that are turning up positive every few months-- younger and younger each time ( 2 post feedban now- with one born almost 2 years after the feedban) .... You prove to me and the world it isn't happening- I would think you would want to :???: ...Like I said as long as we can convince Congress there is that doubt and keep them from allowing the USDA to open up the border anymore to OTM beef and cattle again- I don't have a dog in this fight....

 

[bse-tester]

We advised the USDA 3 years ago that the test was available and they told us that they would get back to us - we arestill waiting!! Oh, they did call me last year in February and ask me for my mailing address but nothing came of that. So you figure out why they just ignored the test. We also showed it to the CFIA 3 1/2 years ago in their own labs in Winnipeg and they loved it so much that they said they would love to have it in their lab to do the testing - but they ignored us completely after Anne McClelland (Minister of Health) publicly stated that animals younger the 30 months could not "catch" BSE. Political interference of just plain stupidity on her part, but it did shut down the CFIA interest.

As for the feed mills, do some research as to who the feed mills are up north - it will not take you too long to figure it out. The Candian Government has suggested that chicken and pig remnants not be used to feed cattle until more is known about the potential for prion transmission since ruminant remnants are still allowed to be fed to chicken and pigs. How stupid is that !!! All that is published is not the truth in todays media that we have come to rely on, especially if it contain alterior motives. Political motives are known to drive a lot of what we call industry these days.

 

[bse-tester]

TImH wrote:

I'm curious.....just who actually owns the patent on the test you are trying to sell?? Chiron Corp.?? Prion Solutions Inc.??? Scripps Institute???? BSE Prion Solutions????? A group of researchers from Scripps??

Biotec Global UK owns the world wide Patent for the test and BSE Prion Solutions Inc, my company, owns the rights to the test for all of the Americas, north, Central and South and all of Europe.

As for the size of the Texas herd. I think you need to rethink the facts you present. I am only making a comparison based upon what Tam was saying about the numbers being tested. I am not too concerned as to who has the most animals or the size of which herd compared to the other. The fact of the matter is simply that in order to eradicate BSE, all animals destined for human consumption should be tested!! Period!! Why should we, as responsible people, place any amount of risk upon the consumer? It simply makes no sense to endanger people who rely on the producers of beef and beef byproducts to supply them with a safe product.

Hell Tim, if you found a dirty plate under your next meal or lipstick on the coffee cup at the restaurant next time you go out for supper, you would scream to high heaven, so why should the consumer not demand safe and healthy products from producers? Especially if the cost of testing was so low that it made perfect sense to test??

 

[TimH]

Tim, I've never bragged about the USDA's testing. In fact, I've been very critical.

Yep, your testing found the cow. That's not the point. The point is that if your feed ban was the caliber Tam seems to think it is, that cow wouldn't of had BSE.

Well since you have been so critical of USDA's testing, would it be fair to say that, in all probability, their(USDA's) testing has missed some cases of BSE in native cattle??
Where exactly, do you suppose the Texas cow contracted BSE from?? If you are a follower of the feed THEORY, do you actually want to suggest that she was the 1 in 35 million cows that ate "infected" feed??
And in addition, I do not know of ANY beef cow/calf producers who have EVER used any type of protein suplement in young calves which,according the popular belief, seems to be when cattle are prone to infection. My calves nurse their mothers,period. No purchased protein.Ever. I'm sure this is also true for 99.9% of the other producers on this site.
Why not just admit the obvious Sandhusker.As an R-calf member you will gladly use BSE as an excuse for trade sanctions and to hell with the ramifications. At least I could semi-respect a little honesty. This worm-like spin, that R-calf is so adept at, is getting old. :roll:

 

[Tam]

99% of everything surrounding BSE is speculation, theory, and SWAG's....

I asked you If you can prove it...Answer the question OT

Your country- Your cattle- that are turning up positive every few months-- younger and younger each time ( 2 post feedban now- with one born almost 2 years after the feedban) .... You prove to me and the world it isn't happening- I would think you would want to :???: ...Like I said as long as we can convince Congress there is that doubt and keep them from allowing the USDA to open up the border anymore to OTM beef and cattle again- I don't have a dog in this fight....

every few months Oldtimer how is 5 in three years, every few months. :roll: Have you proved it isn't happening in the US by the testing the US is doing? Have you turned over any slaughter animals :wink: for testing Oldtimer or does the USDA just go right to the Packing plants to get their 4 D test samples? If you want to prove anything to anyone you have to do the testing and that is exactly what Canada is doing. Did we find post feed ban animals yes we found two but have you ever heard that it takes very little feed to actually infect an animal and feed can sit in a crack in a feed bin for a few years and still be infectious enough to cause a problem. I don't know why we have two post feed ban positives but as I see it the feed ban theory in not the only one on the table. That said WE ARE DOING THE TESTING RECOMMENDED AND NONE OF OUR WERE IN THE HUMAN FOOD CHAIN OLDTIMER SO I SAY OUR BEEF IS SAFER THAN THAT, THAT THE US TESTS AND PROCESSES. :wink: And if you had a system your could trust to not to spread BSE in the US our OTM cattle wouldn't present any more of a risk than yours. :shock:

 

[TimH]

TImH wrote:

I'm curious.....just who actually owns the patent on the test you are trying to sell?? Chiron Corp.?? Prion Solutions Inc.??? Scripps Institute???? BSE Prion Solutions????? A group of researchers from Scripps??

Biotec Global UK owns the world wide Patent for the test and BSE Prion Solutions Inc, my company, owns the rights to the test for all of the Americas, north, Central and South and all of Europe.

As for the size of the Texas herd. I think you need to rethink the facts you present. I am only making a comparison based upon what Tam was saying about the numbers being tested. I am not too concerned as to who has the most animals or the size of which herd compared to the other. The fact of the matter is simply that in order to eradicate BSE, all animals destined for human consumption should be tested!! Period!! Why should we, as responsible people, place any amount of risk upon the consumer? It simply makes no sense to endanger people who rely on the producers of beef and beef byproducts to supply them with a safe product.

Hell Tim, if you found a dirty plate under your next meal or lipstick on the coffee cup at the restaurant next time you go out for supper, you would scream to high heaven, so why should the consumer not demand safe and healthy products from producers? Especially if the cost of testing was so low that it made perfect sense to test??

Ha, ha ha!!! I "need to rethink the facts"???? Pretty much says it all. Facts are facts.Period. Nothing to rethink. You don't know sh!t from tar and are simply a snake oil salesman.End of story.
Is "Bio-Tech Global" comprised of a group of researchers from the Scripps Institute???

 

[Sandhusker]

Tim, I've never bragged about the USDA's testing. In fact, I've been very critical.

Yep, your testing found the cow. That's not the point. The point is that if your feed ban was the caliber Tam seems to think it is, that cow wouldn't of had BSE.

Well since you have been so critical of USDA's testing, would it be fair to say that, in all probability, their(USDA's) testing has missed some cases of BSE in native cattle??
Where exactly, do you suppose the Texas cow contracted BSE from?? If you are a follower of the feed THEORY, do you actually want to suggest that she was the 1 in 35 million cows that ate "infected" feed??
And in addition, I do not know of ANY beef cow/calf producers who have EVER used any type of protein suplement in young calves which,according the popular belief, seems to be when cattle are prone to infection. My calves nurse their mothers,period. No purchased protein.Ever. I'm sure this is also true for 99.9% of the other producers on this site.
Why not just admit the obvious Sandhusker.As an R-calf member you will gladly use BSE as an excuse for trade sanctions and to hell with the ramifications. At least I could semi-respect a little honesty. This worm-like spin, that R-calf is so adept at, is getting old. :roll:

I wouldn't say it is probably the USDA has missed some cases, but I sure would not bet against it. However, my topic was on your feed ban. You don't like to talk about that, do you?

Why don't you admit the obvious, Tim. You want your beef to come to the US, and to hell with any ramifications. Just poo-poo the facts that feed bans have been very effective in reducing BSE. Just poo-poo the fact that you're finding post-ban cattle up there. Try to redirect a little blame on R-CALF just because we want the USDA to stick to the policy that they testified to Congress was needed to combat BSE -the very same policy that was changed only for the Canada trade. I suppose after losing your packing industry up there, you're accustomed to being sold out. We're not.

 

[Anonymous]

I asked you If you can prove it...Answer the question OT

Your country- Your cattle- that are turning up positive every few months-- younger and younger each time ( 2 post feedban now- with one born almost 2 years after the feedban) .... You prove to me and the world it isn't happening- I would think you would want to :???: ...Like I said as long as we can convince Congress there is that doubt and keep them from allowing the USDA to open up the border anymore to OTM beef and cattle again- I don't have a dog in this fight....

every few months Oldtimer how is 5 in three years, every few months. :roll: Have you proved it isn't happening in the US by the testing the US is doing? Have you turned over any slaughter animals :wink: for testing Oldtimer or does the USDA just go right to the Packing plants to get their 4 D test samples? If you want to prove anything to anyone you have to do the testing and that is exactly what Canada is doing. Did we find post feed ban animals yes we found two but have you ever heard that it takes very little feed to actually infect an animal and feed can sit in a crack in a feed bin for a few years and still be infectious enough to cause a problem. I don't know why we have two post feed ban positives but as I see it the feed ban theory in not the only one on the table. That said WE ARE DOING THE TESTING RECOMMENDED AND NONE OF OUR WERE IN THE HUMAN FOOD CHAIN OLDTIMER SO I SAY OUR BEEF IS SAFER THAN THAT, THAT THE US TESTS AND PROCESSES. :wink: And if you had a system your could trust to not to spread BSE in the US our OTM cattle wouldn't present any more of a risk than yours. :shock:

Tam- Don't cry to me if Canadians are too cheap to grease the palms of the right politicians and bureaucrats......As long as you keep feeding that tainted feed- and CFIA keeps finding them for us- we won't have to worry about those old Canuck cows....

 

[Tam]

We advised the USDA 3 years ago that the test was available and they told us that they would get back to us - we arestill waiting!! Oh, they did call me last year in February and ask me for my mailing address but nothing came of that. So you figure out why they just ignored the test. We also showed it to the CFIA 3 1/2 years ago in their own labs in Winnipeg and they loved it so much that they said they would love to have it in their lab to do the testing - but they ignored us completely after Anne McClelland (Minister of Health) publicly stated that animals younger the 30 months could not "catch" BSE. Political interference of just plain stupidity on her part, but it did shut down the CFIA interest.

As for the feed mills, do some research as to who the feed mills are up north - it will not take you too long to figure it out. The Candian Government has suggested that chicken and pig remnants not be used to feed cattle until more is known about the potential for prion transmission since ruminant remnants are still allowed to be fed to chicken and pigs. How stupid is that !!! All that is published is not the truth in todays media that we have come to rely on, especially if it contain alterior motives. Political motives are known to drive a lot of what we call industry these days.

Do you mean like the motive to sell a test? :wink:

And This still doesn't answer my question If Japan is using your test then why did they say the testing that they have been doing showed nothing in animals under 20 months and therefore they were dropping their 100% testing protocol for protocol that excluded the 20 month and under catagory of cattle?

 

[Tam]

Your country- Your cattle- that are turning up positive every few months-- younger and younger each time ( 2 post feedban now- with one born almost 2 years after the feedban) .... You prove to me and the world it isn't happening- I would think you would want to :???: ...Like I said as long as we can convince Congress there is that doubt and keep them from allowing the USDA to open up the border anymore to OTM beef and cattle again- I don't have a dog in this fight....

every few months Oldtimer how is 5 in three years, every few months. :roll: Have you proved it isn't happening in the US by the testing the US is doing? Have you turned over any slaughter animals :wink: for testing Oldtimer or does the USDA just go right to the Packing plants to get their 4 D test samples? If you want to prove anything to anyone you have to do the testing and that is exactly what Canada is doing. Did we find post feed ban animals yes we found two but have you ever heard that it takes very little feed to actually infect an animal and feed can sit in a crack in a feed bin for a few years and still be infectious enough to cause a problem. I don't know why we have two post feed ban positives but as I see it the feed ban theory in not the only one on the table. That said WE ARE DOING THE TESTING RECOMMENDED AND NONE OF OUR WERE IN THE HUMAN FOOD CHAIN OLDTIMER SO I SAY OUR BEEF IS SAFER THAN THAT, THAT THE US TESTS AND PROCESSES. :wink: And if you had a system your could trust to not to spread BSE in the US our OTM cattle wouldn't present any more of a risk than yours. :shock:

Tam- Don't cry to me if Canadians are too cheap to grease the palms of the right politicians and bureaucrats......As long as you keep feeding that tainted feed- and CFIA keeps finding them for us- we won't have to worry about those old Canuck cows....

So is that what you are doing greasing palms as to not find BSE in the US herd ? well you should have greased Phyllis's palm a little harder so you would have to worry about the US OTM cattle either :wink: Time to prove you don't have the kind of problem you claim we have DO THE CORRECT TESTING AND LET US SEE WHAT YOU HAVE OLDTIMER.