WHAT COSTS MORE PER YEAR THAN THE IRAQ WAR?

[Texan]

Better watch it LB,many of the folks here do not take kindly to Bush bashing.....

You're right, nonothing. Many of us don't like the constant whining and bitching about our President. But one of the big differences between conservatives and liberals is that conservatives don't mind being honest and pointing out the disagreements we have with the leaders that we support on most other issues.

As an example, I've said for several years that President Bush is WAY too liberal for me. I think aplus has mentioned the same thing. Heck, Mike even called for his impeachment over the Border Patrol agent issue.

On the other hand, the libs almost always take up for their man. No matter what. They'll deny, divert, deceive - you name it. Anything to keep from admitting the truth.

 

[Steve]

Someone a few posts up wants to bring industry back to the U.S. The Demo tree huggers drove it out with unrealistic legislation.

Don't be ridiculous. The single largest cost to American industry is heritage health care costs. If we had a health care delivery system that is equal to the worst delivery system of other industrial nations, it would save industry billions.

I spoke with a tolling motor manufacturers engineer a couple of years ago. They are a subsidiary or sister company to Zebco. I was told by the engineer that they moved their production facility from Tulsa to Mexico. Not because of lower labor costs, although that was certainly a consideration. But because of health care. They would RATHER have maintained production here....it actually costs less to make the motors here. Between productivity levels and less QA failures, they were able to produce MORE salable units with 20 people here than they could with 80 people in Mexico. But the health care costs, which is borne by the governments of EVERY industrialized nation except ours, were exceeding the employers share of income and SS taxes, doubling the administrative costs of labor. When they combined the savings in health care, plus the tax breaks they received from the Bush administration, they had no choice but to move.

I agree GP, we should adopt Mexico's health care plan to solve our industry being over-regulated, over burdened, "heritage health care costs"... and send all our needy patients north of the border for free health care. :roll: :wink:

since Obama has already dised the Canadians by threatening them with a hammer,... I guess dumping our Medicaid patients on Canada is not going to hurt our relations any worse.. :roll: :wink:

 

[nonothing]

Better watch it LB,many of the folks here do not take kindly to Bush bashing.....

You're right, nonothing. Many of us don't like the constant whining and bitching about our President. But one of the big differences between conservatives and liberals is that conservatives don't mind being honest and pointing out the disagreements we have with the leaders that we support on most other issues.

As an example, I've said for several years that President Bush is WAY too liberal for me. I think aplus has mentioned the same thing. Heck, Mike even called for his impeachment over the Border Patrol agent issue.

On the other hand, the libs almost always take up for their man. No matter what. They'll deny, divert, deceive - you name it. Anything to keep from admitting the truth.

What a crock...

 

[CattleArmy]

As I read everyone's posts it shocks me that nobody else seems to outraged that part of the census of this post is programs that the children of illegals get. I think it takes pretty insensitive people to take away or "B#tch about programs for food, medical care, and basics for children. Children that have illegal parents that are born here no more have control of the situation then the children that are drug here by their illegal parents.





____________________________________________________________

The other point that I missed at first read is even Hagle has a dumba$$ day evidentally. :?

 

[Sandhusker]

Every other day is a dumb-ass day for Hagel. I'm glad he's hitting the road.

 

[backhoeboogie]

You liberals need to figure out that the problem with health care is not who's paying for it, it's the amount that needs to be paid. You also need to figure out that the money needs to come from somewhere. A universal health care system is going to be paid by businesses and individuals, which is going to just push more companies overseas.

For Hillary and Barry to promise the goverment footing the bill without explaining how it will be funded and not addressing the reason the costs are high in the first place is irresponsible, dangerous, and just plain foolish - about what you would expect from those two. But, it sounds good on the surface and as long as nobody asks questions....

Sandhusker, This is all easily explained. The A quadrant of the brain performs logic and analysis. Some folks don't have a good grasp of the A quadrant. These libs on this board seem to run totally off of the C quadrant. There is absolutely no logic in anything they say or support. Unless the fire is actually burning their body, they don't notice. And then they only whine to the doers and shakers.

 

[CattleArmy]

I think it's totally logical to know that the current health care system that we have is becoming more unaffordable at the beginning of each year and at every doctor visit.

I'm not sure what the answer is but I have family that live in Canada that are very happy with their health care system. P.S. Don't dare to bring up the wait time for healthcare in Canada it's becoming a huge problem down here also for specialists and even some rural communities are fighting to maintain or lure in doctors in areas where there are none.

 

[Goodpasture]

P.S. Don't dare to bring up the wait time for healthcare in Canada.......

We've ended the wait time problem for millions of Americans. They just don't go see doctors......they have no health benefits, they have no option other than emergency rooms, and those are starting to do credit checks now if you don't insurance. Did you know that the USA is the ONLY country in the world where bankruptcy because of medical bills is a problem? Further, you can no longer Chapter 7 medical bills, you can only Chapter 13 them. Even with that, we have more bankruptcies over medical bills than all other reasons for bankruptcies combined.

 

[Sandhusker]

P.S. Don't dare to bring up the wait time for healthcare in Canada.......

We've ended the wait time problem for millions of Americans. They just don't go see doctors......they have no health benefits, they have no option other than emergency rooms, and those are starting to do credit checks now if you don't insurance. Did you know that the USA is the ONLY country in the world where bankruptcy because of medical bills is a problem? Further, you can no longer Chapter 7 medical bills, you can only Chapter 13 them. Even with that, we have more bankruptcies over medical bills than all other reasons for bankruptcies combined.

That tells me that the cost of health care is what needs to be addessed, not the method of which we all pay for them.

 

[Texan]

We've ended the wait time problem for millions of Americans. They just don't go see doctors......they have no health benefits, they have no option other than emergency rooms, and those are starting to do credit checks now if you don't insurance. Did you know that the USA is the ONLY country in the world where bankruptcy because of medical bills is a problem? Further, you can no longer Chapter 7 medical bills, you can only Chapter 13 them. Even with that, we have more bankruptcies over medical bills than all other reasons for bankruptcies combined.

And when all of the people that file bankruptcy and cheat health care providers out of money owed to them, those same health care providers have no choice but to recover that money from the people who can pay.

 

[Mrs.Greg]

P.S. Don't dare to bring up the wait time for healthcare in Canada.......

We've ended the wait time problem for millions of Americans. They just don't go see doctors......they have no health benefits, they have no option other than emergency rooms, and those are starting to do credit checks now if you don't insurance. Did you know that the USA is the ONLY country in the world where bankruptcy because of medical bills is a problem? Further, you can no longer Chapter 7 medical bills, you can only Chapter 13 them. Even with that, we have more bankruptcies over medical bills than all other reasons for bankruptcies combined.

I watched a program on TV today,a young couple{hes a paramedic in Alaska} had to file bankruptcy because there daughter was born with a hole in her heart,a year worth of medical bills added up to 170,000.

 

[Goodpasture]

P.S. Don't dare to bring up the wait time for healthcare in Canada.......

We've ended the wait time problem for millions of Americans. They just don't go see doctors......they have no health benefits, they have no option other than emergency rooms, and those are starting to do credit checks now if you don't insurance. Did you know that the USA is the ONLY country in the world where bankruptcy because of medical bills is a problem? Further, you can no longer Chapter 7 medical bills, you can only Chapter 13 them. Even with that, we have more bankruptcies over medical bills than all other reasons for bankruptcies combined.

That tells me that the cost of health care is what needs to be addessed, not the method of which we all pay for them.

Lets see, insurance pools are groups of people who may have a problem, with each of them paying a share of the cost of everyones needs. Assuming everyone will not need assistance, then the pool will cover the cost of those few who do. Obviously, the bigger the pool of people participating, the less any one individual pays. So if everyone in the country is in the pool it makes sense that that will create the largest possible pool and therefore the lowest possible cost. The second problem are those people who use the services without needing it. We can minimize that with co-pays. So lets have a single payer plan where everyone has access and everyone pays the premium. That will provide the lowest possible cost to the individuals. Lets take it out of the hands of people who are interested in profits. Make it a non-profit group where, after a residual level of money has been reached, that the "profits" be recycled into premium deductions. Administrators get paid, individuals get medical care, doctors get paid, where is the down side?

 

[Steve]

GP

where is the down side?

insurance companies take the money and invest it so the returns pay for the plan.. government plans take the money and spend it.. so when it is time to pay the plan they demand more from US and cut the benefits..

take SS as an example.. just like any other government run program.. it sounds nice when proposed, but as soon as politicians get involved.. it becomes a socialist program and sliding scales of who pays and how much.. never ending increases and eroding benefits..

 

[CattleArmy]

GP

where is the down side?

insurance companies take the money and invest it so the returns pay for the plan.. government plans take the money and spend it.. so when it is time to pay the plan they demand more from US and cut the benefits..

take SS as an example.. just like any other government run program.. it sounds nice when proposed, but as soon as politicians get involved.. it becomes a socialist program and sliding scales of who pays and how much.. never ending increases and eroding benefits..

Aren't we already at the place in health care with never ending increases?

 

[Steve]

GP

where is the down side?

insurance companies take the money and invest it so the returns pay for the plan.. government plans take the money and spend it.. so when it is time to pay the plan they demand more from US and cut the benefits..

take SS as an example.. just like any other government run program.. it sounds nice when proposed, but as soon as politicians get involved.. it becomes a socialist program and sliding scales of who pays and how much.. never ending increases and eroding benefits..

Aren't we already at the place in health care with never ending increases?

Yes,... but I can't see how replacing a bad system with a worse system is going to help..

if Obama and Hillary have such a great plan introduce it.. let it be debated and exposed..

Hillary wants to mandate a plan.... which I am totally against..

Obama says he can make health care affordable..

Why wait?

if the plans are good, introduce legislation to get them started..

They don't because their plans are dreams no one can afford..

Many wanted the elderly to have prescription drug benefits.. and as soon as it was passed the liberals had a hissy fit because of the costs..(and because Bush proposed their favorite plan) yet the liberals have not "fixed" the plan as they claimed it could be.. why?

Why haven't they solved the problems with the plans they already are in charge of?

maybe once the democratic congress fixes.. Medicaid.. Medicare.. the VA,.. and Medicare prescription.. I'll believe their speeches..

as you can see the democratic plan for schip went from affordable to expensive... why?

Due to poor targeting and the relative cost of crowd out, the annual cost to taxpayers of covering an uninsured child under the House's expansion plan would increase from $1,612 to between $3,485 and $4,008.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/healthcare/wm1627.cfm

 

[CattleArmy]

Some people act as if the people who cannot afford to insure their families due it out of being negligent. Most who don't have insurance know the risk they take financially in not having it. But if a person just covers their basic needs how do you add a huge monthly health insurance premium?

 

[passin thru]

One of the big problems in health care is the liability factor. Doctors are paying a sky high liability ins rates. So doctors cover their butts and instead of making a medical decision............they send you in for tests costing thousands of dollars. They say..........insurance is paying for it................my a$$ they are.............we are.
Doctors used to make a decision but nowdays they don't do anything without tests to back up their decisions.

 

[Sandhusker]

We've ended the wait time problem for millions of Americans. They just don't go see doctors......they have no health benefits, they have no option other than emergency rooms, and those are starting to do credit checks now if you don't insurance. Did you know that the USA is the ONLY country in the world where bankruptcy because of medical bills is a problem? Further, you can no longer Chapter 7 medical bills, you can only Chapter 13 them. Even with that, we have more bankruptcies over medical bills than all other reasons for bankruptcies combined.

That tells me that the cost of health care is what needs to be addessed, not the method of which we all pay for them.

Lets see, insurance pools are groups of people who may have a problem, with each of them paying a share of the cost of everyones needs. Assuming everyone will not need assistance, then the pool will cover the cost of those few who do. Obviously, the bigger the pool of people participating, the less any one individual pays. So if everyone in the country is in the pool it makes sense that that will create the largest possible pool and therefore the lowest possible cost. The second problem are those people who use the services without needing it. We can minimize that with co-pays. So lets have a single payer plan where everyone has access and everyone pays the premium. That will provide the lowest possible cost to the individuals. Lets take it out of the hands of people who are interested in profits. Make it a non-profit group where, after a residual level of money has been reached, that the "profits" be recycled into premium deductions. Administrators get paid, individuals get medical care, doctors get paid, where is the down side?

You still haven't addressed the real problem, which is the cost of the medical care itself. That's the reason the insurance costs are so high. Universal health care is an answer to the symptoms, not the disease. This deal is just going to break all of us.

 

[Goodpasture]

insurance companies take the money and invest it so the returns pay for the plan..

No, it pays for golden parachutes and multi million dollar executive bonuses for minimizing the number of people who receive health care.

government plans take the money and spend it.. so when it is time to pay the plan they demand more from US and cut the benefits..

That is a management problem. Elect better representatives and have them hire better managers. But then I never said the government should run the non profit. Hell, let Red Cross run it. Let Wal-mart run it......they have good management. but keep the guys from Kmart and Sears away from it....or GM or Ford or Chrysler....just get it out of the hands of people sitting in a cubicle whose bonus depends on how many times they deny medical care and get it away from the executives that think that because they have an ivy league degree that they deserve $100 million a year in wages and twice that in bonuses.

 

[Goodpasture]

You still haven't addressed the real problem, which is the cost of the medical care itself.

Medical care itself has not gone up that much. It is the administration of that health care that has sky rocketed. A Doctor I hunt with has THREE women in his one man office that do nothing but file insurance claims. His staff consists of him, an RN, and three bookkeepers/insurance filers. He contracts out his transcriptions. With a computerized system, he could cut his office costs in half, if it weren't for 30+ insurance companies, each with their own forms. He spends half his time arguing with phone monkeys in cubicles over what he can and can't do to treat his patients.

Universal health care is an answer to the symptoms, not the disease. This deal is just going to break all of us.

Every nation is the world, even Cuba, is providing decent health care at an affordable rate. The difference with us and them? Insurance companies.