Who is responsible for the border staying closed?

[USgal-In-Manitoba]

Frasercattleco - Unfortunately these guys are reacting to their pain with anger and lashing out at anyone in sight who disagrees with them. It's funny but pain and loss should teach one tolerance and gratitude for what we do have. They owe your son an apology and it should be a lesson to them as to how angry and mean-spirited they have become.

Reader,

No one deserves an apology here! All of us are adults with the exception of this kid. He shouldn't have been on this site in the first place. As I said before his mind was already made up.

Lets not forget how most of the R-calfers and Americans got when the border was supposed to re-open prior to the injunction. Every last one of you had bad attitude. If Fraser/SouthDevon was so upset about those on this site voicing there opinion, why did he let his son log on?

Every one is intitled to there own opinion. I dont agree with thos people who base there opinion or actions to fill there pockets or because it benefits them. That's the easy way, but what happens when there is a BSE positive animal found in the US? Can't always blame it on the foreign countries. Gonna have to face the truth here someday.....when you do, you'll realize that the "Hard" route like the Canadian Ranchers have had to live thru, isn't so peachy.

Like I've said before.........it's not if they will find one, it's when!

Us Gal

US Gal - I disagree with you. Some of us Americans did not have "a bad attitude" as you call us. We kept silent in fact because we knew the pain the ruling would cause you. The last thing we wanted to do was crow. Some of us care because we see BSE as a North American issue and one that we think can be put to bed with consistent and enforced policies on both sides of the border. If you read Porker, Mike, or my posts, you would see that we have been consistent on these points. Some of us are NOT in the blaming Canada mode but are calling for the same precautionary and surveillance measures on both sides of the border.

Reader - I am an American and no not all have bad attitudes. You kept silent cause you were uncertain what the outcome would be and you didn't want to eat crow. Not so painful but more eyeopening and confirming for the Canadians that we need grounds to become the more competitive marketor for our beef product. This means they have to search and come up with new ideas and marketing tactics to become "minimal risk" and acceptable to other foreign markets. We should just test every animal and stop going in circles. I'm sure the Canadian Farmer/Rancher would rather see the money from there cattle investment go towards a test rather than into someone elses pocket.

I agree that this is a North American issue and it can be worked out if both sides follow the rules. Who is responsible for making the rules though? It has to be a combined effort from both sides of the border. Not just one sided. If we can find a proficient method to help prevent the effects of BSE, such as complete SRM removal etc. then we would be off to the races. The US and Canada have to agree and see eye to eye on the science first.

Glad to hear that you're not "blaming" or point the finger cause Canada has really been the Giuena Pig in this situation. But this may be to our advantage. By the time the US finally decides to start testing there 4D's and uncovers a homegrown case of BSE, Canada will have figured out a solution, and the US can just follow in there footsteps. Just glad the USDA and all the American Cattle farmers and ranchers are holding up to there end of the surveillance. It would help!

US Gal~

 

[USgal-In-Manitoba]

Before we get too judgemental about what's posted here, we better go back and look at the "Bull Session Forum Index" for a description of what gets posted and where. What do you think "no holds barred" means? I never thought of that as being the type of acton that would leave everyone feeling really good. Sure,some of us get cared away at times and I do too.

But I think that most of us could sit down with the other guy (or GAL) and have a coffee or a cold one. I said "most"....

I get carried away too but most of time I try to argue based on what I have heard or read -- even though some may not accept it -- versus name calling and personal insults. I agree that it is mostly "no holds barred." My point is the rest of us get to engage in heated arguments and so do new posters. What is the difference???

Reader - Everyone gets carried away now and again but why did this particular person come onto this site expecting a pot of gold answer when he asked for a "no holds" response? That was the point of my post!

 

[USgal-In-Manitoba]

US Gal - No, you don't know my motives. I stayed silent because I was uncomfortable at people rejoicing at your misfortune. I will freely admit that since I believe we have a BSE issue, I can appreciate R-CALF's role in bringing attention to it, but not at the expense of Canada. When my husband was dying and my kids and I heard about the Washington cow, in the midst of our tragedy and grief we were singing "Blame Canada" jokingly before the investigation had concluded because that's such a great (and expected) out for the U.S. We could tell how the USDA would spin it, based on the outrageous PR and misstatements in the first week after the cow was found. Imagine watching someone you love dearly dying of a related disease and having Alicia Harrison call it a "usually fatal" disease that holds no danger for the U.S. public and oh, by the way, the cow was / was not a downer and oh by the way its meat entered the food supply but no none should be alarmed at that.

Reader - I am sorry for your loss and understand why you are so agressive with your thoughts and opinion. Back before this site changed I posted a message regarding the relation between BSE and CVJD and I dont recall to many people agreeing that there is a relation. There were more than a few CVJD cases in Washington and isn't this state primarily Dairy cows (Holstein s/p?). How many Dairy cows have been found with BSE?

Lets start this topic again and see if any opinions have changed and what you have to add.

check out this link http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5253a2.htm

US Gal~

 

[Tam]

Not sure about dairy cows and BSE. Others have said that dairy cows may be more susceptible due to how they are fed as calves. Also, they are kept longer and I presume a larger percentage of the older cattle are dairy cattle -- long enough to actually be symptomatic. And I gather old dairy cows are more likely to be ground up and put into sausages so possibly more bone and CNS bits are present also. But who knows? We just know that the youngest humans and cattle appear to be the most susceptible.

Dairy cow rarely live as long as beef cows. In a mega dairy the live expectancy of a cow is maybe 5 or 6 years. When the Washington cow was found some thought it was strange she was still alive at her age. as the average mega dairy cow only last through two maybe three freshings. We have had beef cattle on our ranch from 10 to 12 years old and some even older. I know dairy cattle have the reputation of being more susceptible to BSE and this is probably because they are pulled from the mother cow and fed milk replacer in high quanities at a very young age. But you have to remember that of the 5 cattle found with BSE in North American only 2 were dairy cattle the other three were Beef cattle. And to say old dairy cow are more likely to be ground up is not exactly true. Old cows and bulls in general are ground up as they are usually tougher than their younger counterparts, where we get the tender high quality steaks and roast from. Most of the meat you see in the grocery store meat counter is from UTM cattle unless it is ground beef and processed meats that is where the OTM cows and bulls come in.

 

[rancher]

But you have to remember that of the 5 cattle found with BSE in North American only 2 were dairy cattle the other three were Beef cattle.

I think you meant to say Canada instead of North America, we found on imported one, Mexico 0.

 

[Murgen]

found with BSE in North American

Rancher, was the Wahington cow "found" in Canada? No, stop trying to play on people's wordings. Tam could have also said " 1 found in the US", "of Canadian origin", what would it have changed.

 

[rancher]

It would have changed the whole post. It is not a North American problem and NCBA just figured that one out.

 

[SASH]

It is not a North American problem

Really? How many markets are you shipping to that we aren't?

 

[rancher]

NCBA is working to get the straighten out. Was a mistake in telling the others it was a North American problem. Lets hope they get it done. :lol:

 

[SASH]

NCBA is working to get the straighten out. Was a mistake in telling the others it was a North American problem.

The only people who think this isn't a North American problem are you and your buddies that live in R-CALF fantasy land. The rest of the world doesn't see it that way. They've seen the story of the Texas cow and there are enough leaks coming out about selective testing for BSE and avoiding the testing of suspect cows. There is no way our trading partners will see any distinction between the US and Canadian herd. Good Luck.

 

[Tam]

It would have changed the whole post. It is not a North American problem and NCBA just figured that one out.

Do you know what Rancher, the US beef industry if they want their export markets back should care more about what the OIE and the rest of the world think over what you or R-CALF or the NCBA think

This is what they think

Having examined the information provived on trade in live cattle and livestock feed ingredients within the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA), the subcommittee firmly believes that the first case of BSE in the United Staests can not be considered in isolation from the whole cattle production system in North America. The significance of this BSE case cannot be dismissed by considering it "an imported case". The first BSE case detected in the USA. and the first "indigenous case" reported in Canada in 2003, must be recognised as both being BSE cases indigenous to NORTH AMERICA. For this reason, close collaboration between all appropriate agencies in the NAFTA is essential for proper management of North America's BSE problem.

Now that it has been estabilshed that the BSE agent is circulating in North America , the surveillance programme in the USA must be significantly extended in order to measure the magnitude of the problem.

Considering the BSE situation in North America, the subcommittee believes the partial (ruminant to ruminant) feed ban that is currently in place is insufficient to prevent exposure of cattle to the BSE agent.

Unless aggessive surveillance proves the BSE risk in the USA to be minimal according to OIE standards, the subcommittee recommends that the SRM identified below be excluded from both the Human food and animal feed chains.

So tell me if this is a Canadian problem why did the USDA implement a new aggressive surveillance program? Why did they ban downers from your food chain? why did they start removing SRM's in the US? Why are they looking at revising the US feed ban rule? Why don't you just face it you are in this with us as it was your government that signed the NAFTA and it was US ranchers buying Canadian feed and US ranchers in Canada buying cattle. This is a NORTH AMERICAN problem in the eye of the people that should really matter your EXPORT markets :x

 

[frasercattleco]

Wow, I have been missing a lot, as for US gal, I did influence my son's opinions, ANY father SHOULD have an influence on their kids, he is very smart, and sometimes snippy, but he has the fire most people lack. Murgen, he is not mad at anyone, he loved this, he also tricked the system by saying he is over 13, I haven't been on bull sessions since oh, about 2 years ago, then it was good clean debate, now it can get too rowdy. I have him locked out, and if he wants to say something or read something, it will be over my shoulder.

 

[Murgen]

Yeah, but it was a better trailer than you own, and might I say Hat, the sequin shirt looked better on her first hand than it did on you when you picked it up at the Sally ann!

 

[Murgen]

yep, that's Canuck for thrift shop, but up here we give it a name and target market ( lot of women named Sally here). As for the wack of snow, it's nice to have the moisture, from what I hear from some parts, they would welcome it! also good to keeped you housed! Igloos and everything!

 

[frasercattleco]

Keep your Sally anne thrift stores, and your sequin shirts, and box up some of the white stuff and mark it express. This is like dangling a steak in front of a pack of angry wolves!

 

[Murgen]

Fraser, Hat was acting like it was something awful to have 2 feet of snow in the fields! Sure will be nice when spring comes, if it ever does!

 

[Murgen]

Hey Fraser, I'll do even better, I'll strap some moisture to the side of ever live cattle beast that crosses the border.

 

[frasercattleco]

Thats why we are in a drought, having the border open, or having moisture. Money vs. Money. Murgen, I beleve you have depicted a conundrum!

 

[Murgen]

May, warms up in a hurry here in Ontario.

 

[Maple Leaf Angus]

Sometimes, Murgen, sometimes!

No use pretending we're in the banana belt. :?