Surprising answer!

[PATB]

The specs for CAB have not change since inception but the cattle being marketed have. No where in the specs does it say it has to have angus on 51% black hided and meet age and carcass specs. As stated before the majority of the cattle were other than black when CAB was started. The majority other breeds have changed color to take advantage of the CAB premium. If you want red cattle sell under red angus and herdfords have CHB. How many times are we going to keep breeding this dead horse?

So... CAB has been a misrepresentation from it's inception? It never had anything to do with promoting angus beef? How bout re-labeling it CBHB (certified black hided beef). :wink:

Regardless of the label I'm sure it's tasty.

Triangle Bar Black Angus was the black breed at the time. All most all other breeds were anything but predominantly black. The USDA graders needed a quick and easy way of identifying potential angus carcasses for the CAB program. The whole purpose of CAB was to increase the demand for registered angus bulls. For the most part the majority of black cattle slaughter have angus ancestors even if they are registered in other breed registeries. Everyone gets hung up on the breed thing but the true secret to CAB is the quality of the meat due to the carcass specs. If your chosen breed wants to start its own branded beef program to promote use of its bulls then go for it.

 

[Badlands]

The specs for CAB have not change since inception but the cattle being marketed have.

Hold it here. The specs have changed over time. A couple years ago, they moved away from specific YG to the "under 1 inch" designation. At the same time, they changed weight and REA specs.

Badlands

 

[PATB]

The specs for CAB have not change since inception but the cattle being marketed have.

Hold it here. The specs have changed over time. A couple years ago, they moved away from specific YG to the "under 1 inch" designation. At the same time, they changed weight and REA specs.

Badlands

I stand corrected. I thought the specs had not changed. Maybe the time has come to require that all animals have at least one registered angus parent and be enrolled in Angus Source program.

 

[Dylan Biggs]

Generations of America's farmers and ranchers do the selecting, raising and feeding so our licensed restaurant and grocery store partners can offer the very best beef available – the Certified Angus Beef ® brand. It's so good, less than 8% of all beef makes the grade.

Their commitment to excellence yields incredibly flavorful, tender and juicy beef for you and your family.

Not all Angus is equal.
Other labels may say Angus, but that's where the similarities end. The difference is in the flavor. And that's where the Certified Angus Beef ® brand sets the bar. Beef must pass 10 stringent quality specifications to earn the brand's premium mark, ensuring you always enjoy flavorful, tender, juicy cuts of beef.

Every pound of Certified Angus Beef ® product is tracked for assured product integrity. The Certified Angus Beef ® brand – truly Angus beef at its best. ®

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Do calves have to be 100% Angus to qualify?
No, just Angus influenced. Cattle coming in to licensed packing plants need to be at least 51% black-hided or AngusSource® enrolled to be evaluated for the CAB brand. Most cattle entering feedlots are commercial cattle and are not purebred or "100% Angus." Carcasses from Angus-influenced cattle are then subjected to our ten specifications that ensure the consumer a pleasurable eating experience.
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How many Angus-influenced cattle meet CAB carcass specifications?
On a national average, only about one in five Angus and Angus-influenced cattle at licensed plants meet all ten carcass specifications and are marketed as CAB product. Establish benchmarks on what percentage of your cattle can make CAB today. The national average may be in the teens, but some producers have an average as high as 80%--the reserve heifer entry in the 2006 National Angus Carcass Challenge was 94.7% CAB and Prime. Collect harvest information on your calves and apply it to breeding and culling decisions at the individual cow level.

Back to questions

Why don't more cattle qualify for the Certified Angus Beef ® brand?
Marbling is the major reason carcasses do not become CAB product. It is also the major contributor to CAB product's characteristic flavor and juiciness.

That is why the brand's specifications indicate marbling must be "Modest or higher." The Angus breed is traditionally known for its marbling ability, and certain lines of Angus genetics have been identified with the potential to enhance their progeny's marbling level. It was this knowledge that led to the ten carcass requirements of the CAB brand.

Many cattle meeting the brand's live animal specification are crossbred, and only carry some of the Angus genetic advantage for marbling. This usually only leads to marginal success in achieving CAB acceptance. By using registered Angus bulls with positive marbling EPDs in a well-balanced selection program, producers may strengthen the marbling capability of cattle identified for the brand.

I am curious does any one know how the hide color % is measured.

By the quality grade of the carcass??????? :shock: :wink:

Good One Robert :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Dylan Biggs]

The specs for CAB have not change since inception but the cattle being marketed have. No where in the specs does it say it has to have angus on 51% black hided and meet age and carcass specs. As stated before the majority of the cattle were other than black when CAB was started. The majority other breeds have changed color to take advantage of the CAB premium. If you want red cattle sell under red angus and herdfords have CHB. How many times are we going to keep breeding this dead horse?

So... CAB has been a misrepresentation from it's inception? It never had anything to do with promoting angus beef? How bout re-labeling it CBHB (certified black hided beef). :wink:


Regardless of the label I'm sure it's tasty.

Tri Bar CBHB that's perfect :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[gcreekrch]

Soapweed, I can't help but comment on your comment about losing money on a horse trade. Soap really can't be considered a horse trader, maybe a broker would be the term, I have thought long and hard on how to describe it. He is the only guy that I know that will tell you up front what he gave for the horse and tell you all of its vices then give you the option to buy it. He represents all of his business ventures the same way. I can honestly say that I have always respected Soap knowing that what he told me was fact and when he shook my hand it was better than a signature. To get to the point it is not people like Soapweed that set the market in any industry, that is why there are premiums. It is the dishonest mis-represented product that sets the price, once you develope a reputation as having a fair and honest commodity then you see the rewards. Reputation sellers, sell to reputation buyers. All the rest have to settle for what they get. If you do not get reputation buyers to look at your calves maybe you need to take a long look at how you are representing your cattle and be honest with yourself about the quality. No offense intended to anyone.

I knew Soapweed's answer as I was typing the question. :wink:



I still believe that if a product is certified to be XYZ then it should darn well be XYZ and nothing else.

 

[leanin' H]

Playing devil's advocate....... Raise your hands if you are absolutely sure that your cattle are 100% anything!
Anyone?
Since we all agree that there has been a lot of genetic cocktails in most every breed, how would you know? DNA test every prospective feeder? If you have a cow who's great grand dam was 1/8 simmetal doesnt that mean her calves are not certified Angus? After all they aren't pure blooded as the definition should be. CAB puts good beef in front of people who will buy more as long as the steak is great! Does it sell more Angus bulls? Probably. Does it sell more beef? Almost certainly. Is there a better plan out there? Anyone?
And if you take awaya prospective calf that meets the criteria as set forth because he's not "Angus Enough" aren't ya just not selling beef! My point again in that this isnt REGISTERED ANGUS BEEF. It's Certified, meaning it meets the specs laid out for all to see and was invented by the folks at Angus to promote beef. Does it work?

 

[gcreekrch]

H, to my knowledge (and that's not much) in order to qualify for Canadian Angus Beef (I know there's a difference) the slaughter animal must be tagged with a green Certified Angus RFID tag. These tags are to be applied to animals that have at least one Registered Angus parent. They will sell 40 tags per year per bull registration paper the owner submits. I probably could tag everything born here. As I buy and raise a lot of "mongrel" bulls along with the purebreds I feel my integrity would be comprimised by doing such.

 

[Soapweed]

If it is any consolation, my cattle are not sold as Certified Angus. The bulls I buy aren't registered, but they are cheap. :wink:

 

[Big Swede]

I don't know how many of you all have fed your own cattle to slaughter but I have enough experience to know that if you sell your cattle on a grid of any sort, the CAB premium isn't nearly what it should be. The choice/select spread dictates what they will pay for the CAB premiums. Back when I was selling my calves on a grid they would consistently grade 80-90% Choice and most would be YG 3's. They would usually be 20-30% CAB. Sounds OK so far right? Well they would usually offer $3 to $4 per hundred premium for a CAB carcass but if you ever had a Select YG 4 the discounts took the premiums from about 8 CAB's. So in the end you just hoped and prayed that you had enough premiums to offset the discounts. The straw that broke the camel's back was when I gate cut 4 loads of fat cattle. Two loads went to Greeley CO and two loads went to Grand Island NE. One place graded 85% Choice and one place graded 65% Choice. I asked the cattle buyer what the deal was and he said the one inspector must have been having a bad day. I haven't fed any cattle out for a few years but the push back when I quit was more Choice cattle were needed and we would eventually see a $20 Choice /Select spread. Right now I'm not sure there is much of a spread at all because the demand for high end cuts went south with the economy. All I know is we should be thankful for the guys who are still willing to feed cattle. They haven't done well for quite some time. Not sure why the keep coming back to the auction. :?

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

I don't know how many of you all have fed your own cattle to slaughter but I have enough experience to know that if you sell your cattle on a grid of any sort, the CAB premium isn't nearly what it should be. The choice/select spread dictates what they will pay for the CAB premiums. Back when I was selling my calves on a grid they would consistently grade 80-90% Choice and most would be YG 3's. They would usually be 20-30% CAB. Sounds OK so far right? Well they would usually offer $3 to $4 per hundred premium for a CAB carcass but if you ever had a Select YG 4 the discounts took the premiums from about 8 CAB's. So in the end you just hoped and prayed that you had enough premiums to offset the discounts. The straw that broke the camel's back was when I gate cut 4 loads of fat cattle. Two loads went to Greeley CO and two loads went to Grand Island NE. One place graded 85% Choice and one place graded 65% Choice. I asked the cattle buyer what the deal was and he said the one inspector must have been having a bad day. I haven't fed any cattle out for a few years but the push back when I quit was more Choice cattle were needed and we would eventually see a $20 Choice /Select spread. Right now I'm not sure there is much of a spread at all because the demand for high end cuts went south with the economy. All I know is we should be thankful for the guys who are still willing to feed cattle. They haven't done well for quite some time. Not sure why the keep coming back to the auction. :?

AMEN

 

[leanin' H]

I dont have near the numbers most of ya'll do. And I do not participate in CAB either. But I still think it helps rather than hurts the industry as it sells beef. I will tell you that we have created our own small niche by marketing and selling Angus beef. I have been told lots of stories by clients about buying poor beef at supermarkets and wholesalers. While I cannot verify every story, many folks felt like the problem was two fold. #1- The person selling "Fat Beef" was under qualified or very new to finishing beef. Thus the beef was way too fat or very tasteless and tough. On classified add sites around the wasatch front in Utah everybody wants to sell ya a beef. Raised in a 12 by 12 panel corral and fed by someone who got a good buy at the sale barn. Ya'll know that getting beef finished right takes more than wishful thinking.
And #2- The meat that ended up in a freezer was mystery meat. While all breeds have potential as the many diverse operations here on ranchers proves, it is also true that to grade high choice doesnt happen with every calf. My point is quality sells and brings many repeat customers.

CAB may or may not be truth in advertising. But it sells beef to folks who recognize the brand. I guess we will each have to follow our own principles as to wether we want to participate. For what it's worth Gcreek, I like the way you describe better than the way CAB is run now. But what do I know! :wink: It has made for an interesting discussion

 

[Big Swede]

I agree leanin H, it's probably the most successful beef marketing campaign this country has ever seen. And like they say, a rising tide raises all ships. Not sure why all the fuss over a marketing plan that puts everyones product "BEEF" in a positive light. I was just relating that even though it all sounds good, it's not as easy as it might seem.

 

[flyingS]

I was not trying to single out CAB as being mis-represented. I used to think that the 51% Angus or black hided rule was a joke. The problem is the people who represent their cattle as 51% and they are doing so knowing that their cattle do not meet the requirements. I also do not believe that other breeds have gone black to fit into the CAB program. It seems to me that most breeds have gone black to produce a more uniform product. I solid colored set of calves will out sell a mixed set even if the solids are poorer calves. It just makes since. No offense intended to anyone, but I think it is a shame that the seedstock guys on here feel that they have a superior product. Heterosis is the only free lunch you will ever have. Someone has to raise replacement quality females and keep a base for the foundation breeds that we all have discussed. I don't feel as if anyone should be looked down upon for exercising the right to crossbreed and maximize there production while still meeting the guidelines of a program.

 

[Dylan Biggs]

Heterosis is the only free lunch you will ever have.

The only free lunch I am aware of also.

 

[Soapweed]

Heterosis is the only free lunch you will ever have.

The only free lunch I am aware of also.

You guys are missing a bet. There are a lot of free lunches at the various bull sales around the country. :wink:

 

[Big Swede]

Laughing out loud! That was a funny one Soapweed,

 

[flyingS]

That probably depends on how many bulls you buy doesn't it Soap? Maybe you would feel better if you looked at it as a free bull and a 5,000 dollar lunch. :lol: :lol:

 

[RobertMac]

It seems to me that most breeds have gone black to produce a more uniform product.

I see this slightly different...many producers have gone black because,generally speaking, black hides bring more at the salebarn. The reason they bring more is because the packers are paying more. The packers are trying persuade producers to use Angus in their program in an effort to bring more consistency to the final product. In their pork and poultry segments, genetics are essentially the same across each segment...as are growing conditions(CAFO)...which gives them a consistent end product. AAA signed on for obvious reasons...sell more black bulls. The problem is that uncontrollable environmental factors/differences maintain the inconsistency of beef. Throw out the visual criteria and any group of good fed calves would qualify about 20% for CAB specs.

I know you yankees are going to say brahmas won't work. Nolan Ryan's specs call for select carcasses...about 20% meet their specs. A good enough percent didn't meet the specs because they graded choice...so they started a gourmet branded program to sell these to the H&R market.

 

[katrina]

If it is any consolation, my cattle are not sold as Certified Angus. The bulls I buy aren't registered, but they are cheap. :wink:

Oh soap.... I do hope the people who you buy bulls from don't see this.. If it were me I would be sad to think you bought them cuz their cheap and not a good service to you... Enough said... I'll leave ya alone and won't pick on ya anymore... Have a good day buddy..