WHAT COSTS MORE PER YEAR THAN THE IRAQ WAR?

[passin thru]

25% of American households make $25,00 or less. Do you think they can afford $15,000 a year for insurance?
Have you ever been to a free clinic???

While this stat could be correct, one needs to look a step further.
Hardly anyone making this salary is paying their own ins.
I know in many of the rural areas people are making less than this and their employer is paying their health ins. Even many teachers do not make 25,000 in rural areas but their health ins is paid. 25,000 would equate to about twelve bucks an hour. Around here WalMart pays around 8 bucks plus health ins. etc.
Besides the 15,000 dollar figure is an wildly extreme case. Besidess many with a real low income are already on a gov assistance program for health care..........especially the kids. I have yet to see a kid deprived of medical care. Or even an adult for that matter.

 

[cutterone]

HOUSEHOLD not individual

 

[CattleArmy]

OK, guys, who can get any info on how many FAMILIES have only minimum wage jobs?

Wasn't/isn't minimum wage intended as a starter wage?

Where does job skills and competence come into play?

Aren't people short-changing themselves, aided by a society that doesn't seem to expect "the poor" to get training and decent jobs before making babies?

How many people, with even a small level of competence or skills, do NOT get paid more than minumum wages?

How many programs to help "the poor" do nothing but push food and assistance at the problem, when what is needed is to learn why the person is not employable or working?

BTW, we paid $15,000.00 per year for insurance, even with a high deductible, understanding we could not afford to be without coverage. It was never easy and insurance costs probably contribute to the problems of health care by raising the costs of treatment to 'what the traffic will bear', IMO.

Is there truly anyone who really needs health care who is turned away? I know of people who faced horrendous bills above their insurance coverage, who were told to pay what they could each month.........and it has worked out for them.

It seems high costs also are also partly due to those who go to emergency rooms for care because they know they won't have to pay, when a clinic could take care of their problem for far less cost to society.

Maybe the real culprit is bureaucracy, plus the level of socialized medicine we ALREADY HAVE????

mrj

Minimum wage is what many live on. It is in part due to the fact that employers are paying poorly. Some people only get a very small raise just a matter of cents. Wow instead of 5.25 somebody gets 5.50 an hour.

How about ranchers. A lot of them around her pay 1600 a month gross no insurance. How do you support a family on that plus pay 500 bucks a month for health insurance? Part of the problem to me lies in the fact that employers aren't paying well enough.

Some people are poor even before they make babies. May I suggest to you trying to live on 5.25 an hour 40 hours a week. Pay for rent, utilities, and health insurance then get back to me about how well you are faring.


We pay almost more then we can afford now. It makes me cringe about the choices we will have to make in the upcoming years. When we went to see our accountant he suggested we raise our deductible as high as we could see that we could pay off just to make our premiums more affordable.

 

[CattleArmy]

25% of American households make $25,00 or less. Do you think they can afford $15,000 a year for insurance?
Have you ever been to a free clinic???

What do people who can't pay do? Is there really such a thing as a free clinic?

People make payments for years or they claim bankruptcy.

There isn't a free clinic around here.

 

[passin thru]

HOUSEHOLD not individual

Still you are going to be hard pressed to find a household making under 25 who is paying their own ins.

 

[Goodpasture]

Survey: Doctors support universal health care
More than half favor switching to national plan, new study finds

WASHINGTON - More than half of U.S. doctors now favor switching to a national health care plan and fewer than a third oppose the idea, according to a survey published on Monday.

The survey suggests that opinions have changed substantially since the last survey in 2002 and as the country debates serious changes to the health care system.

Of more than 2,000 doctors surveyed, 59 percent said they support legislation to establish a national health insurance program, while 32 percent said they opposed it, researchers reported in the journal Annals of Internal Medicine.

Many other countries have national plans, including Britain, France and Canada, and several studies have shown the United States spends more per capita on health care, without achieving better results for patients.

An estimated 47 million people have no insurance coverage at all, meaning they must pay out of their pockets for health care or skip it.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23899607/

 

[Anonymous]

25% of American households make $25,00 or less. Do you think they can afford $15,000 a year for insurance?
Have you ever been to a free clinic???

What do people who can't pay do? Is there really such a thing as a free clinic?

People make payments for years or they claim bankruptcy.

There isn't a free clinic around here.

Same here- the Clinics and Hospital turn your bill over to the Credit Unions and get a judgement against your bank accounts (which most of these people have little savings in), property, and your wages if you fall as much as 1 month in default on making payments (which they usually set up higher than most can afford :roll: )....Leaving these folks with no savings, checking accounts, property, or credit rating---and leaving some almost unemployable because employers don't want employees they have to spend time on weekly figuring and paying garnishment bills.....

Their other choice is to go borrow the money from a Bush Administration legitamized shylock which can raise interest to 20-30% - and put them further in debt :roll:

 

[Goodpasture]

...........can raise interest to 20-30% - and put them further in debt :roll:

here they can charge as much as 240% interest.......

 

[Mrs.Greg]

I keep getting flak when I post things on this subject but don't you all agree the very last thing a person need to think about when them or a family member is sick , is bills and how your gonna pay them?

 

[Mike]

It doesn't matter what sort of health care plan we have, some people are just not responsible for themselves or their kids welfare and will always be at the bottom of the income rung.

Ya'll sound like you like the socialism ideals where everyone works for the gubment and make the same salary.

The ones I know that don't have health care for the family, stop at the store everyday and buy themselves a 12 pack. :roll:

 

[Mrs.Greg]

It doesn't matter what sort of health care plan we have, some people are just not responsible for themselves or their kids welfare and will always be at the bottom of the income rung.

Ya'll sound like you like the socialism ideals where everyone works for the gubment and make the same salary.

The ones I know that don't have health care for the family, stop at the store everyday and buy themselves a 12 pack. :roll:

Did you finish your 12 pack today cause your socialism statement sounds like yur brain is alcohol infused :roll: :roll:

I don't really care if a parent is not reponsible as long as thier children get the same care as a responsible parents child :!:

 

[Red Robin]

Oldwhiner I guess you want the nondrinking taxpayer to cover your trips to the water hole as well? Why should my taxes fund alcohol related costs when I don't drink?

Health Care Costs of Alcohol
Health care costs and alcohol

* Twenty-five to forty percent of all patients in U.S. general hospital beds (not in maternity or intensive care) are being treated for complications of alcohol-related problems. 1

* Annual health care expenditures for alcohol-related problems amount to $22.5 billion. The total cost of alcohol problems is $175.9 billion a year (compared to $114.2 billion for other drug problems and $137 billion for smoking).2

* In comparison to moderate and non-drinkers, individuals with a history of heavy drinking have higher health care costs. 3

* Untreated alcohol problems waste an estimated $184.6 billion dollars per year in health care, business and criminal justice costs, and cause more than 100,000 deaths. 4

* Health care costs related to alcohol abuse are not limited to the user. Children of alcoholics who are admitted to the hospital average 62 percent more hospital days and 29 percent longer stays. 5

* Alcohol use by underage drinkers results in $3.7 billion a year in medical care costs due to traffic crashes, violent crime, suicide attempts and other related consequences. The total annual cost of alcohol use by underage youth is $52.8 billion. 6

* Alcohol-related car crashes are the number one killer of teens. Alcohol use is also associated with homicides, suicides, and drownings-the next three leading causes of death among youth. 7

* Alcohol is the drug most frequently used by 12 to 17 year-olds-and the one that causes the most negative health consequences. More than 4 million adolescents under the legal drinking age consume alcohol in any given month. 8

* For an estimate of the costs that alcohol problems may be causing your workplace, and suggestions on what a company can do to identify and treat costly alcohol problems, go to the Alcohol Cost Calculator: http://www.alcoholcostcalculator.org. 9

 

[Anonymous]

Ya'll sound like you like the socialism ideals where everyone works for the gubment and make the same salary.

No- thats Steve and RR's neocon health care plan for everyone to work for the Post Office or be in the military... :roll: :wink: :lol:

Next the Right Reverend and neocons will be proposing putting the nonpayers into Paupers Prisons and their children into workhouse Orphanages vintage 1890's :shock:

Thats getting to my vision of this new fangled conservatism- even tho it didn't work 100 years ago- and isn't working- we should stick with it come Hell or high water ... :roll: :shock: :wink: :lol:

What is conservatism? Is it not the adherence to the old and tried against the new and untried? ~Abraham Lincoln

Abe was smart enough to know when it ain't working- it needs fixing...

 

[movin' on]

There are two things that need to happen for the cost of health insurance to go down.

The first is--people need to get health insurance BEFORE they need it if there is any concievable way for them to do it.

The second is--people need to use health insurance for actual, honest, real claims. Those policies that offer doctor visits, prescription pills, etc., etc. are what are driving the cost of policies up. Many people want to view a health insurance policy as a kind of savings accounts....I'll pay in X amount of dollars a month and then I'll take out X amount of dollars a month to go to the doctor because I have the sniffles.

Think about your auto insurance. How would it worked if you went and got your pickup insured after you had a wreck? It wouldn't work. No company would take that pickup. How about if you went to get your oil changed or your rotors turned and you tried to turn that in to your auto insurance policy? That wouldn't work on today's auto insurance policies. I will guarantee you that auto insurance companies would absolutely love to add "doctor visits" and the like to their policies and then let everyone use their insurance every single time they opened their vehicles hood and wonder why their rates keep going up.

Insurance for your body needs to be viewed like insurance for your pickup in my opinion. Have a policy in place to cover the stuff that you are not able to afford, get a high deductible, and suck it up and pay for the small stuff. There's not a shadow of doubt in my mind that the reason health insurance rates continue to skyrocket is because of people's constant abuse of it.

By the way, I do sell catastrophic health insurance and here's a fact or two you might find interesting.

Actual catastrophic (major medical) coverage only increases by an average of 4% a year.

The "fluff" (doctor co-pays, perscription pills, etc) goes up from 40% to 50% a year.

Those combined and applied to the ratio that they make an average policy makes the average policy go up by 14% a year.

The policies we sell are to people who understand how insurance is supposed to work. They have it in place for the big stuff, don't use it if they don't need it, and are thrilled when their rates slowly, slowly creep up over the years instead of doubling in a year or two.

I meet lots of people whose insurance costs are skyrocketing. Those are often the people that suddenly understand the "$15 co-pay" scam that society has grown so accustomed to.

Well, there, I said it.....fire away.

 

[Anonymous]

movin-on-- I agree with most of what you said...The problem is many are locked into the type insurance their company/employer offers- or what the majority of employees want and have little choice when the employer picks up a % of the coverage....I've long been a proponent of employers offering "cafeteria plans"- which allows someone that already has family basic care insurance thru their spouse's job to put their % of employer paid insurance benefit into "extended care" coverage- cancer care, or a major medical policy....

 

[movin' on]

Yes, that's right. Those people that have their insurance picked up by their employer often have little or no choice. I wouldn't even know where to begin fixing that problem. I guess I was referring to the self-employed or those who do not have it offered to them through their place of employment, who are often the people that have the hardest time affording it.

 

[CattleArmy]

I keep getting flak when I post things on this subject but don't you all agree the very last thing a person need to think about when them or a family member is sick , is bills and how your gonna pay them?

Mrs. Greg we have health insurance and it costs us plenty each month. Part of the reason I have a job in town is to help offset the cost. I was sick around Thanksgiving and had two trips to the ER costing over 2000. While there the doctor wanted to x-ray my back and my response was I knew I hadn't hurt my back and that was one less thing I could pay for. Sitting there sick enough to need IV's and yet smart enough to know everything they were doing was costing us money and trying to help cut costs. I'm sorry but there is something wrong with the system when one has to worry about the money it's costing instead of the care they are getting.

 

[kolanuraven]

Someone here gave the sage advice that if you didn't have ins.....pay for it out of your pocket. You ever tried that? They--hospital people--have no idea what to do with you when you offer that.

Example: I had to have an MRI due to a nerve issue in my neck. My ins., one of the best in the country really, said it wouldn't pay for it. Do something else... We argue back and forth....then I tell the hospital staff, who are really trying to help me out in the debate, " Forget it, I'll pay the whole amt myself".

They were stunned :shock: :shock: :shock: when I whipped out my ck book and asked how do I make out the ck. They called about 3 ' managers' in and were in a complete quandry as how to handle that. They never had anoyone offer to pay for anything that the ins co had refused. Seems most people just did without. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


Then by some miracle....the ins. co called back and said no problem...they'd do their part they'd promised in the first place.

 

[Steve]

Kolanuraven

They--hospital people--have no idea what to do with you when you offer that.

your right, and if no one sees me on line today it's because I agreed with Kola again.. and my computer crashed..

when British national health failed my MIL, after her waiting seven years for a heart bypass, we decided to see what it would cost over here.. we couldn't get an answer.. so we went through a travelers insurance.. to get her coverage for the plane and catastrophic coverage... they had a hospital and a cap cost in a few days.. the same hospital who wouldn't talk to us, gave them an answer in writing in less then a week..

while few can afford to wait... it is an option....

 

[Mrs.Greg]

I keep getting flak when I post things on this subject but don't you all agree the very last thing a person need to think about when them or a family member is sick , is bills and how your gonna pay them?

Mrs. Greg we have health insurance and it costs us plenty each month. Part of the reason I have a job in town is to help offset the cost. I was sick around Thanksgiving and had two trips to the ER costing over 2000. While there the doctor wanted to x-ray my back and my response was I knew I hadn't hurt my back and that was one less thing I could pay for. Sitting there sick enough to need IV's and yet smart enough to know everything they were doing was costing us money and trying to help cut costs. I'm sorry but there is something wrong with the system when one has to worry about the money it's costing instead of the care they are getting.

Thats what I was talking about.In the last two years we've had two nephews with cancer,one was just turning a year.The other one 34 that needed a special kind of treatment,because of the rare type he had. Gregs mom with cancer{her we lost }A little nephew with MRSA{spent two months in the Stollery} And a 4yr old niece thats been paralized from a vehical accident.Our grandsons mommy going through a battery of tests to determine whats causing some of her strange symptoms.{She has her MRI today,hoping like the CT scan nothing shows }Trust me,not having to worry about medical costs for any of these has helped our family deal with all this and reduses the stress. I just can't imagine worrying about what tests you need enough to afford. Thx CRM for your input.